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threesixty 5:56 Mon Jan 7
Are we any better than 7th?

We are 10th now, and I think there were maybe 2 games we should have won at the beginning of the season (Wolves and Bournemouth maybe?).

That would put us at 7th. Every team ahead of that is definitely better and more consistent than us. I think there is a bit of a gap between the top 6 and the rest of the league.

So how much will it take to break into the top 6? Another 100m? Just better coaching? Will we get anymore investment like we got last season?
Or is 7th the max the club is going for as a club over the long term?

(first day back at work, trying to distract myself..)

crystal falace 1:49 Sat Jan 26
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

Forgot Nasri in there too, but not sure what his contract situation is going into next season?

crystal falace 1:48 Sat Jan 26
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

I'd say we've comfortably got the 7th best squad in the league just injuries/inconsistency have really hampered us.

obviously some of that blame is on us signing injury prone players such as wilshere, carroll & yarmolenko but nobody could have seen that injury to Lanzini coming.


big if but IF we could get everyone healthy and playing at the same time our squad would be challenging for top 6 imo

Rice Wilshere

Yarmolenko Lanzini Anderson

Arnie/Gomez next year

Still leaves players like Antonio, Snodgrass, Diangana, Noble, Obiang, Caroll, hernandez, perez as options on the bench.

Eggbert Nobacon 11:32 Thu Jan 24
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

9th highest income in the premier league should tell you that 7th is the best we can expect and top 6 is a pipe dream

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6625559/Real-Madrid-replace-Manchester-United-Europes-biggest-earners.html

Bernie 8:56 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

Classic V that.

Spouts so much bollocks he's forgotten exactly what he's spouted.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 6:41 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

Alex V 3:50 Wed Jan 23

'Just ask me. You don't need to make up a version of my views that is a complete fabrication. It's a bad faith argument.

The strategies I support would imo be incredibly easy to implement.'

I made it up?

'Alex V 3:16 Wed Jan 23

No strategy is easy.'

Stupid cunt.

SUM A DING WONG 6:14 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

"This would be a great time to bag an arab, but never going to happen"

I'm going for chat with an Arab, now.

Mustafa Crap.

boltkunt 3:51 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

Alex, your strategies are flawed. We'd end up having to sign league 1 players on the wage structure you mentioned earlier.

Alex V 3:50 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

>>> I see, so your strategy would be to employ a strategy that you concede would be very difficult to implement and be unlikely to succeed.

Just ask me. You don't need to make up a version of my views that is a complete fabrication. It's a bad faith argument.

That's if you want to discuss it fairly and rationally at all.

The strategies I support would imo be incredibly easy to implement. All that is required is the willingness to implement them. Their success or failure would depend on how well the club operates, of course. Success would not be a given, but is entirely possible.

The current strategy I see as having pretty much zero chance of delivering long-lasting success. I think it's a losing strategy. So I continue to criticise it.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 3:41 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

Alex V 3:16 Wed Jan 23

I see, so your strategy would be to employ a strategy that you concede would be very difficult to implement and be unlikely to succeed.

Thanks for your posts on this matter. Most enlightening.

Lee Trundle 3:30 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

One of the problems with V, is that he wants up to sign the Diops of this world, but he's not prepared to pay the money the Diops of this world are valued at.

He'll stump me here by saying we should be scouting these players as they exit their mothers wombs, of course.

Alex V 3:16 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 2:52 Wed Jan 23

No strategy is easy. That's why I say 'ideally' - the reality is that you're dealing with decisions that are often imperfect. But that's a problem whatever strategy you employ - good players will want to leave, the best ones are hard to find etc.

So I don't see why that argument is being thrown at my views - one of the principles I directly want to see is that the club build to withstand these sort of issues. Sullivan's 'buying for now' strategy has been highly susceptible to collapse when key players are injured or want to leave.

scott_d 3:00 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

Wont take much to finish 7th or above as a one off. A bit of luck on our part and bad luck on a few other teams and we're there.

The hard part is staying there and becoming a regular favourite for this position and that will take a bit more than luck.

Firstly we are carrying too many average players. We've got some quality and we are adding but there are still some players that are letting us down and not up to the task.

I would be happy to see us replace the likes of Cresswell, Masuaku, Carroll, Perez. I would even add Antonio to that list as he is not good enough often enough and his work rate is no better than Andy Carroll.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 2:52 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

Alex V 1:44 Wed Jan 23

'Ideally you buy pre-peak, sell post-peak.'

Yes that will work. It's easy to identify and buy players cheaply 'pre-peak'. And players at their peak never want to move for more money to bigger clubs. And finally, of course, other clubs are queuing up to pay too much money for players that are past their best.

Piece of piss. Southampton showed us how to do it, after all.

Oh!

roltrader 2:07 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

This would be a great time to bag an arab, but never going to happen

SUM A DING WONG 2:05 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

Alex,

We're too far behind the competition, to follow your methods. We have to somewhat go out on a limb and throw caution to the wind. You'd have us carrying on like little old West Ham, knowing their place and continuing to be a feeder club. That would be the reality, if we followed your way. Not saying that's what you want, but it wouldn't move us forward enough, for us to break into the top 4. As ive said before, we would at best be a gloryfied Southampton. Lets take Tottenham and Southampton and compare them. Both had similar strategies, except Tottenham took on the strategy when they were contenders to the top 4. Southampton did it to start of with, being nowhere near the top 4 Where are both teams now?

For once, we have manager who would be able to attract the top players to us, if backed - lets take advantage of that and build a squad rather than a couple in 1 out which essentially is what we would end up with.

We're going round in circles here, mate. Lets agree to disagree.

Alex V 1:44 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

>>> In the postion we're in, if we keep getting in younger players and then sell them on to the top 4, what will happen? We will be inconsistent due to the chop and changing of the side, whilst making the teams above even more stronger. Jesus wept. mate.

Who is even suggesting that? Bizarre.

Ideally you buy pre-peak, sell post-peak. Sometimes you try not to sell, when it suits you you try to tempt buyers. This is all basic common sense. But there is no way to challenge the top sides without eventually having players they might covet - that's the sign of progress not failure. I think in Diop and Rice we have two right now - I don't see that as a negative. We need a full squad of those.

I see that threat as a big point of difference between strategies. IF a key player forces a move or a certain pillar of the squad is sold there's a house of cards potential collapse. That's a big reason why spending big on a small number of mercenary 'names' is inherently weak - they either fail and drain a higher proportion of resources or they succeed and inevitably want to move on which rips the crucial elements out of the squad. That's a great reason why you must build a balanced squad, not rely on a few stars propped up by filler.

SUM A DING WONG 1:19 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

Alex,

In the postion we're in, if we keep getting in younger players and then sell them on to the top 4, what will happen? We will be inconsistent due to the chop and changing of the side, whilst making the teams above even more stronger.

Jesus wept. mate.

If we was talking about any other business other than football, i would be in a lot more agreement. But this football, where the rules are completely turned on their head. It's not like any other business.

The great thing about this, is that we're disagreeing on how we're maybe going to fight for top 4, rather than looking over our shoulders at relegation, for once.

Long may that continue

Alex V 1:06 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

SUM A DING WONG 12:40 Wed Jan 23

Well I'm obviously not opposed to players like Anderson who fits a fair amount of the criteria I think the club should look for in a player. I think we could be better run and get more players like that at better prices on a lower wage base. Bargains don't have to be bad players or squad fillers.

We could also be better at regenerating the squad with sales so that more deals that are in our favour on the younger and more talented players can be made. So we get better, faster!

We could invest in facilities and staff so these talented players develop quicker, are kept fitter, have higher performance levels, are better coached etc.

These are methods and principles the club could decide to adopt that offer a direct line to exactly what you want - a better squad competing at a higher level. I find it hard to see an argument against this approach - that's why I push it so hard in discussion.

The bad strategy imo is just to throw money at players seemingly regardless of price, never sell so no regeneration happens, invest little or nothing in facilities so no general improvement can be seen. That's what I broadly see as the current situation. I think it's stupidity!

SUM A DING WONG 12:42 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

When i say bargains, i mean very good young players.

But, again we're limited to signing the best of those with the likes of Arsenal and Tottenham around

SUM A DING WONG 12:40 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

Alex V,

It's not impossible. Im not suggesting we spend 50 to 100 million on each player. But, for every couple of bargains we buy, we go out and get an Anderson.

If that's impossible, then we may as well fucking give up!

Alex V 12:35 Wed Jan 23
Re: Are we any better than 7th?

SUM A DING WONG 12:22 Wed Jan 23

I think some of your thoughts are on the right lines, for example you realise that through sales Spurs were enable to enhance their squad not through direct investment, but through making profits in the market. That is a great principle that West Ham could decide to adopt. But to do so we'd have to accept that at times selling a player is the best strategy, ie we have to see the bigger picture.

Again, you seem to confuse ambition for achievement. Every club should have the ambition to be the best, but that alone won't deliver it. You have to actually have a workable plan. We will not outspend Man City and Chelsea and Man Utd - it's not going to happen. Actually FFP currently ensures that it can't.

So you have to think again - you can't just call for more money to be thrown at it, because that is both impossible and doesn't work anyway.

I repeat, what you want to see is impossible and doesn't work. That's why I consider the alternatives to that far superior.

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